(承上)仆役那一条不足为凭:人本愿意把邀祷立成当行的,不愿只作可行可不行的。
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论仆役的那一条不足为凭;因为人起初本愿意把自己的 邀祷 立成当行的,不愿只作那可行可不行的。
in the case of a waiter, because from the outset, they prefer to establish their zimmun as an obligation rather than as an option.
← 祝祷卷总目·第七章 三人同吃
这不是译本,是辅读层。中文承载文本本身,并逐句标出哪些是塔木德自己的话、 哪些是 施泰因扎尔茨 补入的解释,以及哪些地方翻译必然有所流失。
谢法利亚 的 威廉·戴维森 版用 <b> 标出塔木德原文,其余为
施泰因扎尔茨 补入。下面的比例是逐句从这个标记算出来的,不是判断。
这一面每读 4 句,只有一句以塔木德自己的话为主。把这件事藏起来, 读者会以为自己读的是塔木德;标出来,他才知道自己站在哪里。
(承上)仆役那一条不足为凭:人本愿意把邀祷立成当行的,不愿只作可行可不行的。
论仆役的那一条不足为凭;因为人起初本愿意把自己的 邀祷 立成当行的,不愿只作那可行可不行的。
in the case of a waiter, because from the outset, they prefer to establish their zimmun as an obligation rather than as an option.
又一凭据:妇女彼此可行邀祷,奴仆彼此可行;妇女、奴仆、未成年的却不可同行。一百个妇女尚且等同两个男人(不成祷告之数),她们既能行邀祷,可见两人也能行。
革玛拉 再举一凭据。
The Gemara cites yet another proof.
你来听:妇女彼此可以行 邀祷,奴仆彼此也可以行 邀祷;然而妇女、奴仆与未成年的人,纵然愿意一同行 邀祷,也不可行。
Come and hear: Women form a zimmun for themselves and slaves form a zimmun for themselves; however, women, slaves, and minors, even if they wish to form a zimmun together, they may not form a zimmun.
可是一百个妇女,岂不是等同两个男人么——她们凑不成祷告的法定人数。
But aren’t one hundred women considered the equivalent of two men, in that they cannot constitute a prayer quorum?
这段 《巴拉伊塔》 却教说:妇女彼此可以行 邀祷,迦南的奴仆彼此也可以行 邀祷。
And yet, the baraita teaches that women form a zimmun for themselves and Canaanite slaves form a zimmun for themselves.
可见像妇女一样,两个男人自己也能行 邀祷。
Apparently, like women, two men can form a zimmun on their own.
驳回:那里不同——妇女虽凑不成祷告之数,三个人到底是三个心思,能应「你们和我同来称颂…我们要一同高举他的名」;两个男人却不能。
革玛拉 驳回说:那里的情形不同;妇女虽凑不成祷告的法定人数,到底是三个心思、三个人,三个妇女便能应「你们和我同来称颂耶和华,我们要一同高举他的名」那一句;两个男人却不能。
The Gemara rejects this: There it is different because, although women cannot constitute a prayer quorum, since there are three individual minds, i.e., people, three women can fulfill the verse: “Praise God with me, and we will exalt His name together.” Two men cannot.
若是这样,那段的后半说妇女与奴仆纵愿意也不可同行邀祷——何以不可?他们岂不也是三个心思么?
革玛拉 难说:若是这样,请看这段 《巴拉伊塔》 的后半:妇女与奴仆纵然愿意一同行 邀祷,也不可行。
The Gemara objects: If so, say the latter clause of this baraita: Women and slaves, if they wish to form a zimmun, they may not form a zimmun.
这是为什么呢?
Why not?
他们岂不也是几个心思、正该同来颂赞神么?
Aren’t they individual minds, which should enable the collective praise of God?
答:那不是缘故;那里所以禁,是贤哲虑妇女与奴仆同聚要生淫行。
革玛拉 答:妇女与奴仆所以不可一同行 邀祷,并不是为着那个缘故。
The Gemara responds: That is not the reason that women and slaves were prohibited from forming a zimmun together.
乃是那里另有情形:贤哲们虑到妇女与奴仆同聚,恐怕生出淫行。
Rather, it is different there, as the Sages were concerned with regard to women and slaves joining together due to promiscuity.
拉夫与拉比约哈难两说,谁主何说?似当断为:说「纵愿意也不可」的是拉夫——因为拉夫迪米·巴尔·约瑟引拉夫说,三人同食而一人出到市上,众人唤他、算他在内;反推可知不唤就不成。
拉夫 与 拉比约哈难 这一争里,两位 阿摩拉 哪一位主哪一说,本不明白。
In the dispute between Rav and Rabbi Yoḥanan, it is unclear which amora held which opinion.
革玛拉 要断明这一层:似当断为——说「他们纵然愿意也不可行 邀祷」的是 拉夫。
The Gemara seeks to resolve this: Conclude that Rav is the one who said: If they wanted to join together, they may not form a zimmun.
因为 拉夫迪米·巴尔·约瑟 引 拉夫 说:三个人一同吃饭,其中一个出到市上去了,众人可以唤他,把他算在 邀祷 之内。
As Rav Dimi bar Yosef said that Rav said: Three people who ate as one and one of them went out to the marketplace, they call him and include him in the zimmun.
所以如此,是因为他们唤了他;反推可知:他们若不唤他,剩下的两个就不能行 邀祷。
The reason is because they call him; by inference, if they do not call him, no, they cannot form a zimmun.
驳回:那里不同——他们起初已立为三人一席、有当行之责,所以才须唤他回来算在内。
革玛拉 驳这凭据:三人同食而一人离席的那种情形另是一样;因为他们起初已立为三人一席,本有行 邀祷 之责。
The Gemara rejects this proof: It is different there, in the case of three who ate together and one of them left, because from the outset, they established themselves as a group of three who were obligated to form a zimmun.
正为这缘故,他们才须唤他,把他算在自己的 邀祷 之内。
That is why they need to call him and include him in their zimmun.
那么反过来断:说「纵愿意也不可」的是拉比约哈难——因为拉巴·巴尔·巴尔·哈纳引他说:两人同食,一人诵祝祷,另一人听着就算尽了本分。
革玛拉 便要反过来断:说「他们纵然愿意也不可行 邀祷」的是 拉比约哈难;因为 拉巴·巴尔·巴尔·哈纳 引 拉比约哈难 说:两个人一同吃饭,一个诵祝祷,另一个听着就算尽了诵祝祷的本分。
The Gemara now attempts to prove the opposite: Rather, conclude that Rabbi Yoḥanan is the one who said: If they wanted to join together, they may not form a zimmun, as Rabba bar bar Ḥana said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: Two people who ate as one, one fulfills his obligation to recite a blessing with the recitation of the blessing of the other.
我们曾论过这话教了什么——「听见祝祷而未应声的也算尽了本分」本已明说过。拉比泽拉说:他所教的是,两人之间并无邀祷之祝。可见主「两人不可行」的正是拉比约哈难。
革玛拉 说:我们曾论过这话,要辨明这条 哈拉哈。
The Gemara comments: And we discussed it in an attempt to clarify the halakha.
他这话究竟教了我们什么呢?
What is he teaching us?
这一条我们本已明明学过:人听见了祝祷,虽没有应声,仍算尽了本分。而 拉比泽拉 说:拉比约哈难 这话所教的是——他们两人之间并没有 邀祷 那一段祝祷。
We already learned this halakha explicitly: One who heard a blessing and did not respond, nevertheless he fulfilled his obligation And Rabbi Zeira said: Rabbi Yoḥanan’s statement teaches us that there is no blessing of zimmun among them.
既然如此,正当断定:主「两人不可行 邀祷」的那位 阿摩拉 就是 拉比约哈难。
Indeed, conclude that Rabbi Yoḥanan is the amora who held that two may not form a zimmun.
拉瓦·巴尔·拉夫胡纳对父亲说:西边(以色列地)来的贤哲岂不是说两人愿意就可以行邀祷么?那岂不是从拉比约哈难听来的?答:不然,或是从拉夫下巴比伦以先听来的。
就此,拉瓦·巴尔·拉夫胡纳 对他父亲 拉夫胡纳 说:从西边、就是从以色列地来的贤哲,岂不是说两个人一同吃饭,若愿意就可以行 邀祷 么?
With regard to this, Rava bar Rav Huna said to his father Rav Huna: Didn’t the Sages who came from the West, from Eretz Yisrael, say that two individuals who ate together, if they wanted to join together, they may form a zimmun?
这话岂不是他们从以色列地的 拉比约哈难 听来的么?
What, is it not that they heard it from Rabbi Yoḥanan, who was from Eretz Yisrael?
拉夫胡纳 答说:不然,这不足为凭;他们或是在 拉夫 离以色列地下到巴比伦以先,从他听来这条 哈拉哈 的。
Rav Huna answered: No, this is not a proof, as it is possible that they heard this halakha from Rav before he left Eretz Yisrael and descended to Babylonia.
细论拉夫之说:三人同食而一人出到市上,众人唤他、算他在内,纵他不在旁边也可。阿巴耶说:这单指唤了他而他答应得着的;他若远得答应不着,就算不进去。
革玛拉 细论 拉夫 这话本身:拉夫迪米·巴尔·约瑟 引 拉夫 说,三个人一同吃饭,其中一个出到市上去了,众人可以唤他,把他算在 邀祷 之内,纵然他不在他们旁边。
The Gemara now explains the matter of Rav’s statement itself: Rav Dimi bar Yosef said that Rav said: Three people who ate as one and one of them went out to the marketplace, they call him and include him in the zimmun, even if he is not beside them.
而 阿巴耶 说:这单指他们唤了他、他也答应得着的光景;他若远得答应不着,就算不进去了。
And Abaye said: This is only in a case that they call him and he responds, but if he is too far away to answer he cannot be included.
玛尔祖特拉说:这话单指三人的邀祷;若是十人之数、要在邀祷里提神名的,非等那出去的回来同坐,不可行。
玛尔祖特拉 说:我们说「听得见、答应得着就够」,单是就着三人的 邀祷 说的;至于十人之数,非等那出去的人回来与他们同坐,就不可行那提神名的 邀祷。
Mar Zutra said: We only said this, that it is sufficient to hear and answer, with regard to a zimmun of three; but, with regard to a quorum of ten, they may not form a zimmun which includes mention of God’s name until the one who left comes and sits with them.
拉夫阿施力驳:倒该反过来才是——九人同食看着像十人,缺一个不显;两人同食却看不出是三人,倒该定要那第三个在场。
拉夫阿施 力驳这话说:倒是相反的才在理。
Rav Ashi strongly objects to this: On the contrary, the opposite is more reasonable.
九个人一同吃饭,看着像十个人;纵少一个,那法定之数也不显得缺。
Nine people who ate together appear like ten, so even if one is missing, the quorum does not seem to be incomplete.
两个人一同吃饭,却看不出像三个人;照理倒该定要那第三个在场才是。
Two people who ate together do not appear like three, so it would be reasonable to require the actual presence of the third.
断:这条依玛尔祖特拉。缘故是:十人的邀祷里要提天上的名,不满十人而提神名,是不合体的。
革玛拉 断说:这条 哈拉哈 依 玛尔祖特拉。
The Gemara concludes: And the halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Mar Zutra.
这是什么缘故呢?
What is the reason?
因为十人的 邀祷 里要提到天上的名;人数不满十而提神的名,不是合宜的举止。
Because in a zimmun of ten they need to mention the Name of Heaven, and it is not proper conduct to invoke the Name of Heaven with fewer than ten people present.
阿巴耶说所传如此:两人同食,当分开各诵,这是诫命。巴拉伊塔同此,并添:这话单指两人都通文的光景;一人通文、一人无知,就由通文的诵,无知的听而尽本分。
论到 邀祷 的诸 哈拉哈,阿巴耶 说:我们所领受的是——两个人一同吃饭,当分开各自诵祝祷,这正是诫命。
With regard to the halakhot of zimmun, Abaye said that we have a tradition: Two people who ate as one, it is a mitzva for them to separate and for each to recite a blessing for himself.
有一段 《巴拉伊塔》 也这样教说:两个人一同吃饭,当分开各诵,这是诫命;那段又添一句:这话是就着哪一种情形说的呢?
This was also taught in a baraita: Two people who ate as one, it is a mitzva for them to separate The baraita, however, adds: In what case are these matters stated?
单指两个都是 通文之人、会诵祷文与祝祷的人。
Specifically when both individuals are learned people [soferim] and capable of reciting prayers and blessings.
他们中间若一个是通文的,一个是无知的,就由那通文的诵祝祷,无知的听着便算尽了本分。
However, if one of them was a learned person and the other an ignoramus, the learned person recites the blessing and the ignoramus thereby fulfills his obligation.
拉瓦说(拉比泽拉之名下也这样传):三人同食而未同时吃完,一个当中断以凑那两个行邀祷;两个却不必为着一个中断。
拉瓦 说:这话是我说的,后来也有人以 拉比泽拉 之名照我的意思说过——三个人一同吃饭,却没有同时吃完:一个人当中断自己的饭,好凑那两个行 邀祷;两个人却不必为着那一个中断自己的饭。
Rava said: This is a statement that I said and it was stated in the name of Rabbi Zeira in accordance with my opinion: Three people who ate as one but did not conclude their meals together, one interrupts his meal in order to join the other two in a zimmun, but two do not interrupt their meal to join the other one in a zimmun.
两个果真不为一个中断么?拉夫帕帕岂不曾为叫儿子阿巴·玛尔诵邀祷之祝而中断——那时正是他与另一人?答:拉夫帕帕那一次是格外通融,越过了律法的本分。
革玛拉 难说:两个人果真不为那一个中断自己的饭么?
The Gemara challenges: And do two really not interrupt their meal to join the other one in a zimmun?
拉夫帕帕 岂不曾中断自己的饭,好叫他儿子 阿巴·玛尔 诵那 邀祷 的祝祷么——那时正是 拉夫帕帕 与另一个人?
Didn’t Rav Pappa interrupt his meal to enable Abba Mar, his son, to recite the zimmun blessing; and, in that case, it was Rav Pappa and one other person?
革玛拉 答:拉夫帕帕 那一次另是一样;他所行的是格外的通融,越过了律法所要求的本分。
The Gemara responds: The case of Rav Pappa is different, as he acted beyond the letter of the law.
犹大·巴尔·玛雷马尔、玛尔·巴尔·拉夫阿施与迪夫提的拉夫阿哈同食;三人年齿学问相当,无一人显然当代众诵。他们坐下生疑:密释纳所说三人当行邀祷,是单指其中有一位大人物的光景么?彼此相当时,或者分开各诵倒好。
革玛拉 记着:有三位贤哲——犹大·巴尔·玛雷马尔、玛尔·巴尔·拉夫阿施 与 迪夫提的拉夫阿哈——一同吃饼。
The Gemara relates that three Sages, Yehuda bar Mareimar, Mar bar Rav Ashi and Rav Aḥa of Difti ate bread together.
他们三人之中,年齿学问都不相上下,没有哪一位显然当代众人诵祝祷。
None among them was greater than the other in either age or wisdom, rendering him the obvious choice to recite the blessing on their behalf.
他们坐下生疑说:我们在密释纳所学的「三个人一同吃饭,就当彼此邀请、同诵 《谢饭祷》」,是单指其中有一位大人物的光景么?彼此既相当,或者分开各诵倒好些?
They sat down and raised a dilemma: That which we learned in our mishna: Three people who ate as one are required to join together and recite Grace after Meals, does that apply only when there is a great man among them, but where they are on a par with each other, perhaps separating and reciting independent blessings is preferable?
他们果然分开各诵。后来到玛雷马尔面前问,他说:你们虽尽了诵祝祷的本分,却没有尽邀祷的本分;如今若要补行,也没有事后补行的邀祷。
他们果然这样行了,各人自诵祝祷。
Indeed, that is what they did, and each person recited the blessing for himself.
后来他们到 玛雷马尔 面前,问他们所行的对不对。
Later, they came before Mareimar to ask him if they had acted correctly.
玛雷马尔 对他们说:你们诵食物的祝祷,本分固然尽了;行 邀祷 的本分,却没有尽。
Mareimar said to them: Although you fulfilled your obligation to recite a blessing over your food, you did not fulfill your obligation to form a zimmun.
你们若说:我们回头再行 邀祷 罢——那也不成,因为没有事后补行的 邀祷。
And if you say: Let us go back and form a zimmun, there is no retroactive zimmun.
食物的祝祷一经诵过,就不能再诵那 邀祷 了。
Once the blessing over the meal has been recited, one can no longer recite the zimmun.
人来了,正遇上他们诵邀祷,他当应什么?拉夫泽维德说:他说「愿他与他的名,永永远远受称颂」(据托萨福)。拉夫帕帕说:他应「阿们」。
革玛拉 又论一问:人来了,正遇见他们诵那 邀祷 的祝祷,他当在他们之后应什么呢?
The Gemara discusses another question: One who came and found them reciting the zimmun blessing, what does he say after them in response to the zimmun.
拉夫泽维德 说:他当说「愿他受称颂,愿他的名永永远远受称颂」(据 托萨福)。
Rav Zevid said that he says: Blessed is He and blessed is His Name for ever and all time (Tosafot).
拉夫帕帕 说:他应「阿们」。
Rav Pappa said: He answers amen.
两说并不相争:遇见他们说「我们来称颂」的,就说「愿他与他的名永受称颂」;遇见他们说「当称颂」的,就应「阿们」。
革玛拉 解说:拉夫泽维德 与 拉夫帕帕 并不相争。
The Gemara explains that Rav Zevid and Rav Pappa do not disagree.
这一说是就着他遇见他们正说「我们来称颂」的光景,那一说是就着他遇见他们正说「当称颂」的光景。
This is in a case where he found them saying: Let us bless; and that is in a case where he found them saying: Blessed be.
分明说来:他遇见他们说「我们来称颂」,就说「愿他受称颂,愿他的名永永远远受称颂」;他遇见他们说「当称颂」,就应「阿们」。
The Gemara specifies: Where he found them saying: Let us bless, he says: Blessed is He and blessed is His Name for ever and all time; where he found them saying: Blessed be, he answers amen.
相类的一处难处:一段巴拉伊塔说,人在自己所诵的祝祷之后应「阿们」是可嘉的;另一段说是可责的。
照这样分说,另一处相类的难处也就解开了。
A similar explanation resolves a difficulty in a related topic.
有一段 《巴拉伊塔》 教说:人在自己所诵的祝祷之后应「阿们」,是可嘉的。
One baraita taught: One who answers amen after his own blessings, it is praiseworthy.
另一段 《巴拉伊塔》 却教说:那是可责的。
Another baraita taught: It is reprehensible.
这不难:说可嘉的,是指「重建耶路撒冷」那一段之后;说可责的,是指别的祝祷之后。
革玛拉 解开这看似相违之处:这不难。
The Gemara resolves this apparent contradiction: This is not difficult.
那说可嘉的一段 《巴拉伊塔》,是就着「重建耶路撒冷」那一诵之后说的;那说可责的一段,是就着别样祝祷之后说的。
This, where the first baraita says that it is praiseworthy to answer amen after his own blessing, is in the blessing: Who builds Jerusalem; this, where the second baraita deems it offensive, is in other blessings.
阿巴耶诵完「重建耶路撒冷」,就高声应「阿们」,好叫作工的听见起来复工——因为随后「本为善、又善待人的」那一诵不是妥拉所命,雇工不必诵。拉夫阿施却低声应,免得听见的人轻看那一诵。
革玛拉 记着:阿巴耶 诵完「重建耶路撒冷」那一诵,就高声应「阿们」,好叫作工的人听见,起来接着作工;因为随后「本为善、又善待人的」那一诵不是妥拉之律所命的,为家主作工的雇工不必诵它。
The Gemara relates: Abaye would answer amen aloud after reciting the blessing: Who builds Jerusalem, so the workers would hear and stand to return to work, as the ensuing blessing: Who is good and does good, is not required by Torah law, so the laborers working for the homeowner need not recite it.
拉夫阿施 却低声应「阿们」,免得听见的人轻看了「本为善、又善待人的」那一诵。
Rav Ashi, on the other hand, would answer amen in a whisper, so that those who heard him would not relate to the blessing: Who is good and does good, with contempt.