25a.1
引证
(承叶二十四背末)——惟独祷告不然:非等遮住心口,不可祷告;因祷告是直向神说话,衣着当合其分。
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——惟独祷告不然:非等他遮住自己的心口,不可祷告;因为祷告是直向神说话,他的衣着当合乎这一分。
However, for prayer, one may not recite it until he covers his heart, because in prayer he addresses God directly and he must dress accordingly.
25a.2
推论
拉夫胡纳 又说:人忘了自己戴着经匣就进了厕所,当用手按住经匣,直到完事。革玛拉 诧异:你心里当真以为可以等到完事么?所以当照 拉夫纳赫曼·巴尔·以撒 所说:直到头一泡粪出净,那时他便可出去摘下经匣。问:他既发觉自己戴着经匣,何不立时起身出去?答:不能,因为 拉班西缅·本·迦玛列 有一句话。巴拉伊塔教说:大解憋住不出,人要得水肿;小解憋住,人要得黄疸。既有这一层险,贤哲便不责他起身出去。
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拉夫胡纳 又说:人忘了自己戴着 经匣 就进了厕所,当用手按住 经匣,直到完事。
And Rav Huna said: One who forgot and entered the bathroom while donning phylacteries places his hand on them until he finishes.
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革玛拉 诧异道:你心里当真以为他可以等到完事么?
The Gemara wonders: Does it enter your mind that he can do so until he is finished?
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所以当照 拉夫纳赫曼·巴尔·以撒 所说:直到头一泡粪出净;到那时,他便可出去摘下 经匣。
Rather, as Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said: Until he finishes discharging the first mass of feces, at which point he can step out and remove his phylacteries.
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革玛拉 问:他既发觉自己戴着 经匣,何不立时住手,起身出去呢?
The Gemara asks: Let him stop immediately when he realizes that he is donning phylacteries and stand and step out.
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革玛拉 答:他不能这样行,因为 拉班西缅·本·迦玛列 有一句话。
The Gemara replies: He cannot do so because of the statement of Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel.
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一段 《巴拉伊塔》 教说:大解憋住不出,人要得 水肿;小解憋住不出,人要得 黄疸。
As it was taught in a baraita: A mass of feces that is held back without having been discharged causes a person to suffer from dropsy [hidrokan], while a stream of urine that is held back causes a person to suffer from jaundice [yerakon].
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既有这一层险,贤哲便不责他起身出去。
Since there is potential danger, the Sages did not require him to step out.
25a.3
提问
有人说,贤哲就「身上沾了粪、或单是手伸进厕所里」一事各执一说。这样的情形,拉夫胡纳 说:他可以诵《听》;拉夫希斯达 说:他不可诵《听》。拉瓦 说:拉夫胡纳 这样断,是什么缘故?因为经上写着「凡有气息的都要赞美耶和华。你们要赞美耶和华」(诗篇 150:6)——他把「魂」读作「气息」。只要那诵赞的口在洁净之处,身上别的肢体在哪里便不相干。
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有人说,贤哲们就一事各执一说:人身上沾了粪,或是单把手伸进厕所里,别的身子并不在内。
It was stated that the Sages disagreed with regard to one who had fecal matter on his skin or whose hand, but not the rest of his body, was placed inside the bathroom.
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这样的情形,拉夫胡纳 说:他可以诵 《听》。
Under those circumstances, Rav Huna said: He is permitted to recite Shema.
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拉夫希斯达 说:他不可诵 《听》。
Rav Ḥisda said: He is prohibited from reciting Shema.
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拉瓦 说:拉夫胡纳 这样断,是什么缘故呢?
Rava said: What is the reason for Rav Huna’s opinion?
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因为经上写着:「凡有气息的都要赞美耶和华。你们要赞美耶和华」(诗篇 150:6);他把那里的 נְשָׁמָה 读作 נְשִׁימָה。
As it is written: “Let every soul [neshama] praise the Lord; Halleluya” (Psalms 150:6), which he interprets as “Let everything that has breath” [neshima].
朱诗篇 150:6 的 נְשָׁמָה(neshama)本是「魂」,和合本随文作「凡有气息的」;拉夫胡纳 把它读作 נְשִׁימָה(neshima),即「呼吸」,于是那一句成了「凡有呼吸之口的都要赞美」,推论便落在「口」上。两词同一词根、只差一个元音,中文的「气息」二字恰好把两义合成一处,反倒看不出这里有两读。
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只要那诵赞的口在洁净之处,他身上别的肢体在哪里,便不相干。
As long as the mouth with which one recites praise is in a place of purity, the location of the other limbs of his body is irrelevant.
25a.4
提问
拉夫希斯达 说:他不可诵《听》。拉夫希斯达 这样断,是什么缘故?因为经上写着「我的骨头都要说:耶和华啊,谁能像你」(诗篇 35:10)。这赞美既是全身所发的,那么纵只一处肢体不洁净,他也不可诵《听》。
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拉夫希斯达 说:他不可诵 《听》。
And Rav Ḥisda said: He is prohibited from reciting Shema.
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拉夫希斯达 这样断,是什么缘故呢?
What is the reason for Rav Ḥisda’s opinion?
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因为经上写着:「我的骨头都要说:耶和华啊,谁能像你」(诗篇 35:10)。
As it is written: “All of my bones shall say: Lord, who is like You” (Psalms 35:10).
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这赞美既是全身所发的,那么纵然只有一处肢体不够洁净,他也不可诵 《听》。
Since this praise is undertaken with one’s entire body, he may not recite Shema even if just one limb is not appropriately clean.
25a.5
提问
有人说,贤哲又就相仿的一事各执一说:臭气有形可见之源的,当怎样断?拉夫胡纳 说:他离那臭源四肘而诵《听》。拉夫希斯达 说:不在乎那源;他要离开臭气所止之处四肘,才诵《听》。
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有人说,贤哲们又就一件相仿的事各执一说:臭气有形可见之源的,当怎样断呢?
It was said that the Sages disagreed over a similar issue: What is the legal status of a foul odor that emanates from a visible source?
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拉夫胡纳 说:他离那臭气之源四肘,然后诵 《听》。
Rav Huna said: He distances himself four cubits from the source of the odor and recites Shema.
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拉夫希斯达 说:那源在哪里不相干;他要离开臭气所止之处四肘,然后诵 《听》。
And Rav Ḥisda said: The source is irrelevant; he distances himself four cubits from the place that the odor ceased and recites Shema.
25a.6
引证
革玛拉 指出:有一段巴拉伊塔合 拉夫希斯达 的意思:人不可对着人粪、狗粪、猪粪、鸡粪、发臭的粪堆或任何可厌之物诵《听》。那秽物若在他上头十掌之宽以上、或下头十掌之宽以下,他可以在旁坐着诵《听》——上下差着十掌之宽,便算另成一域。那秽物若不在他上头或下头十掌之宽,他就当走开,直到它出了眼界。祷告也是一样。至于有形可见之源的臭气,他要离开臭气所止之处四肘,然后诵《听》。
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革玛拉 指出:有一段 《巴拉伊塔》 合 拉夫希斯达 的意思——人不可对着人粪、狗粪、猪粪、鸡粪、发臭的粪堆,或任何可厌之物诵 《听》。
The Gemara notes that it was taught in a baraita in accordance with the opinion of Rav Ḥisda: A person may not recite Shema opposite human excrement, dog excrement, pig excrement, chicken excrement, a foul-smelling dung-heap or anything repulsive.
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那秽物若在他上头十掌之宽以上、或下头十掌之宽以下,他可以在旁坐着诵 《听》;因为上下差着十掌之宽,便算另成一域。
However, if the filth were in a place ten handbreadths above or ten handbreadths below him, he may sit alongside it and recite Shema, as a height disparity of ten handbreadths renders it a separate domain.
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那秽物若不在他上头或下头十掌之宽,他就当走开,直到它出了他的眼界。
And if the filth were not ten handbreadths above or below him, he must distance himself until it remains beyond his range of vision.
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论到祷告,也是一样。
And the same is true of prayer.
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至于那有形可见之源的臭气,他要离开臭气所止之处四肘,然后诵 《听》。
However, from a foul odor with a visible source, he distances himself four cubits from the place that the odor ceased and recites Shema.
25a.7
推论
拉瓦 说:这几条哈拉哈都不照这段巴拉伊塔断,乃照另一段所教的:人无论如何不可对着人粪诵《听》,也不可对着猪粪、或对着泡过皮子鞣制的狗粪诵《听》;别样的秽物则不玷污祷告之处。
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拉瓦 说:这几条 哈拉哈 都不照这段 《巴拉伊塔》 断,乃照另一段 《巴拉伊塔》 所教的:人无论如何不可对着人粪诵 《听》,也不可对着猪粪、或对着泡过皮子鞣制的狗粪诵 《听》;别样的秽物则不玷污祷告之处。
Rava said: The halakha is not in accordance with this baraita in all of these rulings, but rather in accordance with that which was taught in another baraita: One may neither recite Shema opposite human excrement under all circumstances, nor opposite pig excrement, nor opposite dog excrement into which skins had been placed for tanning, but other materials do not defile the venue of prayer.
25a.8
提问
他们在 拉夫舍舍特 面前提出一疑:臭气无形可见之源的——譬如放屁——当怎样断?他对他们说:你们来看学舍里这些席子,这些门生睡在上头,那些门生在那里研习,谁也不顾虑臭气。只是这话单指研习妥拉,因别无他法,不及诵《听》。而论研习妥拉,我们所说的也只是那气出于别人;出于自己的,不在此例。
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他们在 拉夫舍舍特 面前提出一疑:臭气无形可见之源的——譬如放屁——当怎样断呢?
They raised a dilemma before Rav Sheshet: What is the legal status of a foul odor that has no visible source, e.g., flatulence?
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他对他们说:你们来看学舍里这些席子;这些门生睡在上头,那些门生在那里研习,谁也不顾虑什么臭气。
He said to them: Come and see these mats in the study hall, as these students are sleeping on them and these other students are studying, and they are not concerned about foul odors.
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只是这话单指研习 妥拉 说的,因为别无他法;不及于诵 《听》。
However, this only applies to Torah study because there is no alternative, but not to the recitation of Shema.
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而论研习 妥拉,我们所说的也只是那气出于别人的情形;出于自己的,不在此例。
And with regard to Torah study we said that it is permitted only when the odor originated with another, but not when it originated with himself.
25a.9
提问
有人说,贤哲又就一件相仿的事各执一说:粪正从他面前挪过、从这处移到那处,当怎样断?阿巴耶 说:对着它诵《听》是可以的;拉瓦 说:对着它诵《听》是不可的。
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有人说,贤哲们又就一件相仿的事各执一说:粪正从他面前挪过、从这一处移到那一处,当怎样断呢?
It was stated that the Sages disagreed over a parallel issue: What is the law with regard to feces passing before him, being moved from place to place?
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阿巴耶 说:对着它诵 《听》 是可以的;拉瓦 却说:对着它诵 《听》 是不可的。
Abaye stated: One is permitted to recite Shema opposite it, while Rava said: One is forbidden to recite Shema opposite it.
25a.10
推论
阿巴耶 说:我这条哈拉哈从哪里说起呢?是照我们在一条密释纳里所学的:患圣经所说大麻风的人,凡他所在之覆盖底下,都因他成为不洁。那不洁的大麻风病人站在树枝底下,洁净的人从同一棵树底下经过,便成了不洁,因那覆盖之下全是不洁的;可是洁净的人站在树下,那不洁的病人从旁经过,他仍旧洁净。那病人若在树下停住,洁净的人立时成为不洁。患大麻风之症的石头也是一样(参利未记 14 章):石头若只是从这处移到那处,便不传不洁。可见不洁之源惟有停住不动时,才向四围散开。
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阿巴耶 说:我这条 哈拉哈 是从哪里说起的呢?
Abaye said: From where do I say this halakha?
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是照我们在一条密释纳里所学的:患圣经所说大麻风的人,凡他所在的覆盖底下,都因他成为不洁。
I say this on the basis of what we learned in a mishna: One who is afflicted with biblical leprosy renders the area beneath any covering under which he is located ritually impure.
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那不洁的大麻风病人站在树枝底下,洁净的人从同一棵树的枝下经过,就成了不洁;因为那覆盖之下全是不洁的。
In a case where the ritually impure leper is standing under the branches of a tree and a ritually pure person passes under the branches of that same tree, the pure person is rendered impure, as the entire area under that covering is impure.
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可是洁净的人站在树下,那不洁的病人从旁经过,他仍旧洁净。
However, if the pure person is standing under the tree and the impure leper passes, he remains pure.
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那病人若在树下停住了,洁净的人立时成为不洁。
And if the leper stopped under the tree, the pure person is immediately rendered impure.
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患大麻风之症的石头也是一样(参利未记 14 章):石头若只是从这处移到那处,便不传不洁。
The same is true with regard to a stone afflicted with biblical leprosy (see Leviticus 14), in that if it is merely being moved from place to place, it does not cause impurity.
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由此可知:不洁之源惟有停住不动的时候,才向四围散开。
The upshot is that impurity is only disseminated in all directions when the source of the impurity is stationary.
25a.11
解答
拉瓦 尽可以对你说:那一处论大麻风,所系的是「有定所」——论那病人,经上写着「他要独居营外」(利未记 13:46),他的不洁在他所定居之处。这一处论当远离可厌之物,妥拉所定的通则是「你的营理当圣洁」(申命记 23:14),而那样的情形里没有圣洁可言。
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拉瓦 尽可以对你说:那一处论大麻风,所系的是「有定所」这一层;因为论那病人,经上写着:「他要独居营外」(利未记 13:46)。
And Rava could have said to you: There, in the case of leprosy, it is contingent upon the permanence of the place, as with regard to the leper it is written: “He shall dwell alone; outside the camp shall his dwelling be” (Leviticus 13:46).
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他的不洁,在他所定居之处。
His impurity is in his permanent dwelling-place.
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这一处论人当远离可厌之物,妥拉 所定的通则是:「你的营理当圣洁」(申命记 23:14);而那样的情形里,没有圣洁可言。
Here, with regard to the obligation to distance oneself from something repulsive, the Torah stated the principle: “And your camp shall be holy” (Deuteronomy 23:15), and there is no holiness in those circumstances.
25a.12
推论
就此,拉夫帕帕 说:猪的嘴如同挪动着的粪。问:这是不言自明的。答:不然,这条哈拉哈必要说出来,是要教人知道:猪纵然刚从河里上来、人或以为它的嘴已洗净了,其实总也净不了。
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就着这件事,拉夫帕帕 说:猪的嘴如同挪动着的粪。
On this topic Rav Pappa said: The mouth of a pig is like passing feces.
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革玛拉 问:这是不言自明的。
The Gemara asks: That is obvious.
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革玛拉 答:不然;这条 哈拉哈 必要说出来,是要教人知道:猪纵然刚从河里上来、人或以为它的嘴已因此洗净,其实总也净不了。
The Gemara replies: No, this halakha is only necessary to teach that even though the pig emerged from the river and one might assume that its mouth was thereby cleansed, it never becomes completely clean.
25a.13
推论
拉夫犹大 说:有粪之疑——譬如拿不准那是不是粪、因而拿不准可否在它面前诵圣言——便是不可。至于有小解之疑,则是可以的。另有一种传法:拉夫犹大 说:有粪之疑,在家里可以当作没有粪,许人诵圣言;在粪堆上有粪之疑,便是不可。至于有小解之疑,纵在粪堆上也是可以的。
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拉夫犹大 说:有粪之疑——譬如拿不准那是不是粪,因而拿不准可否在它面前诵圣言——便是不可的。
Rav Yehuda said: If there is uncertainty as to the presence of feces, e.g., whether something is or is not feces, and therefore whether or not one is permitted to utter sacred matters in its presence, it is prohibited to do so.
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至于有小解之疑,则是可以的。
However, if there is uncertainty as to the presence of urine, it is permitted to do so.
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另有一种传法。
Some say an alternative version of this.
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拉夫犹大 说:有粪之疑,在家里可以当作没有粪,许人诵圣言;若在粪堆上有粪之疑,便是不可的。
Rav Yehuda said: If there is uncertainty as to the presence of feces, in the home one may assume that there is no feces present and it is permitted to speak sacred matters, but if there is doubt as to the presences of feces in the dung-heap it is forbidden to do so.
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至于有小解之疑,纵在粪堆上,也是可以的。
If there is uncertainty as to the presence of urine, however, even in the dung-heap it is permitted to do so.
25a.14
推论
他所持的,是 拉夫哈姆努纳 那句话——拉夫哈姆努纳 说:妥拉所禁的,只是对着正流出的小解诵圣言。
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他所持的,是 拉夫哈姆努纳 那句话;因为 拉夫哈姆努纳 说:妥拉 所禁的,只是对着正流出的那一道小解诵圣言。
He holds in accordance with that which Rav Hamnuna said, as Rav Hamnuna said: The Torah prohibited the utterance of sacred matters only opposite the stream of urine.
25a.15
引证
他所持的也合 拉比约拿单 的意思——拉比约拿单 曾把两节经文对看:一处写着「你在营外也该定出一个地方,你可以出到那里去」(申命记 23:12),是说人须出营去解手,却没有掩埋之责;另一处却写着「在你器械之中当预备一把锹,你出营外便溺以后,用以铲土,转身掩盖」(申命记 23:13),分明有掩埋之责。
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他所持的也合 拉比约拿单 的意思;因为 拉比约拿单 曾把两节经文对看:一处写着「你在营外也该定出一个地方,你可以出到那里去」(申命记 23:12),是说人须出营去解手,却没有掩埋之责;另一处却写着「在你器械之中当预备一把锹,你出营外便溺以后,用以铲土,转身掩盖」(申命记 23:13),分明有掩埋之责。
And in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yonatan, as Rabbi Yonatan raised a contradiction between two verses: On the one hand it is written: “You shall also have a place outside the camp, to which you will go” (Deuteronomy 23:13), meaning that one must exit the camp before attending to his bodily needs but there is no obligation to cover it; and it is written in another verse: “And you shall have a spade among your weapons; and when you ease yourself outside, you shall dig with it, and turn back and cover your excrement” (Deuteronomy 23:14), indicating a clear obligation to conceal one’s excrement.
25a.16
解答
他解这一驳说:怎样调停呢?那有掩埋之责的一处,说的是粪;那没有掩埋之责的一处,说的是小解。所以论小解,按妥拉之律所禁的,只是对着正流出的那一道诵《听》;一落到地上,便是可以的。至于小解,另有拉比所立的禁;而他们立禁,只立在确知有的情形上,有疑的情形则不立禁。
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他解这一驳说:怎样调停呢?
He resolves this contradiction: How is this resolved?
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那有掩埋之责的一处,说的是粪;那没有掩埋之责的一处,说的是小解。
Here, where one is required to conceal his bodily needs, it refers to feces; here, where there is no requirement to conceal his bodily needs, it refers to urine.
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所以论小解,按 妥拉 之律所禁的,只是对着正流出的那一道诵 《听》;一落到地上,便是可以的。
Consequently, with regard to urine, reciting Shema was only prohibited by Torah law opposite the stream of urine, but once it has fallen to the ground, it is permitted.
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至于小解,另有贤哲所立的禁。
And the Sages are those who issued a decree with regard to urine.
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而他们立禁的时候,只立在确知有的情形上;有疑的情形,他们并没有立禁。
And when they issued a decree, it was only in a case of their certain presence, but in a case of their uncertain presence, they did not issue a decree.
25a.17
提问
问:确知有小解的情形,到几时、到什么样子为止,仍拦着人不得诵圣言?拉夫犹大 引 撒母耳 说:只要还湿得能润着摸它的人的手。拉巴·巴尔·巴尔·哈纳 引 拉比约哈难 也这样说:只要还润手。乌拉 也这样说:只要还润手。格尼瓦以 拉夫 之名说:只要地上还看得出痕迹,便是不可。
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革玛拉 问:确知有小解的情形,到几时、到什么样子为止,仍拦着人不得诵圣言呢?
The Gemara asks: In a case of the certain presence of urine, until when and in what state does its presence preclude one from uttering sacred matters?
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拉夫犹大 引 撒母耳 说:只要它还湿得能润着摸它之人的手。
Rav Yehuda said that Shmuel said: As long as it is wet enough to moisten the hands of one who touches it.
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拉巴·巴尔·巴尔·哈纳 引 拉比约哈难 也这样说:只要还润手。
And so too Rabba bar bar Ḥana said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: As long as it moistens.
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乌拉 也这样说:只要还润手。
And so too Ulla said: As long as it moistens.
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格尼瓦 以 拉夫 之名说:只要地上还看得出它的痕迹,便是不可的。
Geniva in the name of Rav said: It is forbidden as long as its mark is apparent on the ground.
25a.18
反驳
拉夫约瑟 说:愿他的主赦免格尼瓦,拉夫 断不能说这样的话。论到粪,拉夫犹大 引 拉夫 说过:粪面既干得结了壳,人便可以对着它诵圣言;那么对着小解,干了之后可以诵,还用得着说么?
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拉夫约瑟 说:愿他的主赦免 格尼瓦,因为 拉夫 断不能说这样的话。
Rav Yosef said: May God, his Master, forgive Geniva, as Rav could have said no such thing.
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论到粪,拉夫犹大 引 拉夫 说过:粪面既干得结了一层壳,人便可以对着它诵圣言;那么对着小解,干了之后是可以的,还用得着说么?
Now, in the case of feces, Rav Yehuda said that Rav said: Once its surface has dried sufficiently to form a crust, one is permitted to utter sacred matters opposite it; is it necessary to say that opposite urine it is permitted once it dries?
25a.19
反驳
阿巴耶 对他说:你看出什么来,就靠着那一条哈拉哈?倒该靠这一条:拉巴·巴尔·拉夫胡纳 引 拉夫 说:对着粪诵圣言,纵那粪干得像瓦片一样,也是不可的。
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阿巴耶 对他说:你看出什么来,竟靠着那一条 哈拉哈 呢?
Abaye said to him: What did you see that led you to rely on that halakha?
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倒该靠这一条:拉巴·巴尔·拉夫胡纳 引 拉夫 说:对着粪诵圣言,纵那粪干得像瓦片一样,也是不可的。
Rely on this halakha; as Rabba bar Rav Huna said that Rav said: Uttering sacred matters opposite feces, even if it is as dry as earthenware, is prohibited.
25a.20
提问
问:粪干得像瓦片,是个什么样子?拉巴·巴尔·巴尔·哈纳 引 拉比约哈难 说:只要抛出去还不碎,就仍算是湿的。有人说:只要还能从这处滚到那处而不碎。
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革玛拉 问:粪干得像瓦片,究竟是个什么样子呢?
The Gemara asks: What are the circumstances of feces like earthenware?
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拉巴·巴尔·巴尔·哈纳 引 拉比约哈难 说:只要把它抛出去还不碎,就仍算是湿的。
Rabba bar bar Ḥana said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: As long as one throws it and it does not crumble, it is still considered moist.
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有人说:只要还能把它从这处滚到那处而不碎。
And some say: As long as one can roll it from place to place and it does not crumble.
25a.21
引证
拉维纳 说:我站在迪夫提的拉夫犹大面前,他看见一堆粪,就对我说:你去看看,那面干得结了壳没有。有人说他对他说的是:你去看看,那上头裂了没有——裂了才算干。
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拉维纳 说:我站在 迪夫提的拉夫犹大 面前的时候,他看见一堆粪。
Ravina said: I was standing before Rav Yehuda of Difti when he saw feces.
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他对我说:你去察看,那粪面干得结了一层壳没有。
He said to me: Examine it and see whether or not its surface has dried sufficiently to form a crust.
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有人说他对他说的是这样:你去察看,那上头裂了没有——裂了才算干。
Some say that he said to him as follows: Examine it and see if it is cracked, as only then is it considered dry.
25a.22
推论
这件事既有数说,革玛拉 问:末了断的是什么?有人说这一条哈拉哈本身也有两说:对着干得像瓦片的粪诵圣言,阿梅马尔 说不可,玛尔祖特拉 说可以。拉瓦 断的是:对着干得像瓦片的粪,不可;对着小解,只要还润手,便不可。
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这件事既已出了好几说,革玛拉 便问:末了所断的是什么呢?
Since several opinions were expressed on the subject, the Gemara asks: What halakhic conclusion was reached about this?
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有人说这一条 哈拉哈 本身也有两说:对着干得像瓦片的粪诵圣言,阿梅马尔 说不可,玛尔祖特拉 说可以。
It was stated that the halakha is subject to dispute: Reciting sacred matters opposite feces as dry as earthenware; Ameimar said: It is prohibited, and Mar Zutra said: It is permitted.
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拉瓦 所断的是:对着干得像瓦片的粪,不可;对着小解,只要还润手,也不可。
Rava said that the halakha is: Opposite feces as dry as earthenware it is prohibited, and opposite urine, it is prohibited as long as it moistens.
25a.23
反驳
革玛拉 据一段巴拉伊塔发难,那里教说:小解只要还润手,便是不可;它若渗进地里,或在原处干了,便是可以的。这岂不是说,渗进地里的与干了的一样么?干了既看不出痕迹,渗进去的也照样看不出痕迹,那时便可以;可见痕迹看得出的时候,纵已不润手,仍是不可。
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革玛拉 据一段 《巴拉伊塔》 发难,那里教说:小解只要还润手,便是不可的。
The Gemara raises an objection based on what was taught in a baraita: Urine, as long as it moistens it is prohibited.
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它若渗进地里,或在原处干了,便是可以的。
If it was absorbed into the ground or dried in place, it is permitted.
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这岂不是说,渗进地里的与干了的一样么?
What, is urine that was absorbed not similar to urine that dried?
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干了既看不出痕迹,渗进去的也照样看不出痕迹,那时便是可以的。
Just as when it dries its mark is no longer apparent, so too when it is absorbed, its mark is no longer apparent and then it is permissible.
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可见痕迹看得出的时候,纵然已不润手,仍是不可的。
But when its mark is apparent, it is prohibited, even though it no longer moistens.
25a.24
解答
革玛拉 反诘:照你这样推,且看那一段的前一款——「只要还润手便是不可」,由此岂不可推出:不润手而痕迹看得出的,倒是可以的?所以这段巴拉伊塔除了字面本身,推不出别的来,因为两头推出的话正相反。
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革玛拉 反诘:照你这样推,且看那一段的前一款——「只要还润手便是不可」;由此岂不可推出:不润手而痕迹看得出的,倒是可以的么?
The Gemara raises a difficulty to counter this: And according to your reasoning, say the first clause: As long as it moistens it is prohibited, from which one can infer: But if it does not moisten, but its mark is apparent, it is permitted.
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所以这段 《巴拉伊塔》 除了字面本身,推不出别的来,因为两头推出的话正相反。
Rather, no inference beyond its basic meaning can be deduced from this baraita, as the inferences are contradictory.
25a.25
提问
革玛拉 指出:我们且说,这与坦拿中间的一争相当。巴拉伊塔教说:不可对着倒过小解的器皿诵《听》;至于所倒出的小解本身,渗进去了便可以,没渗进去便不可。拉比约西 不以为然,说:只要还润手,便是不可。
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革玛拉 指出:我们且说,这与 坦拿 中间的一争相当。因为有一段 《巴拉伊塔》 教说:不可对着倒过小解的器皿诵 《听》。
The Gemara notes: Let us say that this is parallel to a dispute between the tanna’im, as it was taught a baraita: It is forbidden to recite Shema opposite a vessel from which urine was poured.
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至于所倒出的小解本身:渗进去了便是可以的,没渗进去便是不可的。
However, the urine itself that was poured, if it was absorbed it is permitted; if it was not absorbed, it is prohibited.
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拉比约西 不以为然,说:只要还润手,便是不可的。
Rabbi Yosei disagrees and says: It is prohibited as long as it moistens.
25a.26
提问
革玛拉 辨明这一争:首位坦拿所说的「渗进去」与「没渗进去」,是什么意思?你若说「渗进去」指不润手、「没渗进去」指还润手,而 拉比约西 是来说「只要还润手便不可,不润手而痕迹看得出的倒可以」——若是这样,那正与首位坦拿所说的一样,根本无争。所以「渗进去」当指痕迹看不出,「没渗进去」当指痕迹看得出;而 拉比约西 是来说:只要还润手便不可,不润手而痕迹看得出的倒是可以的。这样,我们革玛拉里的那一争,才与这坦拿之争相当。
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革玛拉 辨明这一争:首位 坦拿 所说的「渗进去」与「没渗进去」,是什么意思呢?
The Gemara clarifies this dispute: What is the meaning of absorbed and not absorbed in what the first tanna says?
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你若说「渗进去」指的是不润手、「没渗进去」指的是还润手,而 拉比约西 是来说:只要还润手便是不可的,若已不润手而痕迹看得出,倒是可以的——
If you say that absorbed means that it does not moisten and not absorbed means that it moistens, and Rabbi Yosei came to say: As long as it moistens it is prohibited, but if there is no moisture but its mark is apparent, it is permitted.
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若是这样,那正与首位 坦拿 所说的一样,两下根本无争。
If so, that is identical to the opinion of the first tanna and there is no dispute at all.
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所以「渗进去」当指痕迹看不出,「没渗进去」当指痕迹看得出。
Rather, absorbed means that its mark is not apparent and not absorbed means that its mark is apparent.
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而 拉比约西 是来说:只要还润手便是不可的,若已不润手而痕迹看得出,倒是可以的。这样,我们革玛拉里的那一争,才与这坦拿之争相当。
And Rabbi Yosei came to say: As long as it moistens, it is prohibited, but if there is no moisture but its mark is apparent, it is permitted, in which case the dispute in our Gemara is parallel to this tannaitic dispute.
25a.27
解答
革玛拉 说未必相当:不然,两位坦拿都同说——只要还润手便是不可的,不润手而痕迹看得出的倒是可以的。
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革玛拉 说未必相当:不然,两位 坦拿 都同说——只要还润手便是不可的;若已不润手而痕迹看得出,倒是可以的。
The Gemara states that it is not necessarily parallel: No, everyone, both tanna’im, agrees that as long as it moistens, it is prohibited, and if there is no moisture but its mark is apparent, it is permitted.